Miscellaneous
I don’t like to put out a scouting report and then change it as I get more information. That said, I don’t like to just leave information sitting in Microsoft word until I am fully ready for a final-draft scouting report. So, instead, I’m leaving what I call “Impressions”. They are bits and pieces I’ve noted from watching players, but are by no means definitive. Treat them as just things I’ve noticed about a player, not definitive attributes.
List of Impressions:
UVA vs USC (10/15/08)
LSU vs AUB (10/17/08)
LSU vs UF (10/21/08)
MIZZOU vs ILLI
Also, occassionally I will write some rather random articles. They will also be stored here.
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What I Do
How to Read These Scouting Reports
Chances are, if you’re reading this, you’re not an NFL Scout. And if you are an NFL Scout, that’s no guarantee that my ratings will make sense without translation. I use a slightly modified system of what Bucko Kilroy, an NFL scout with over 40 years experience, created and is used by about a dozen teams. Due to my limited financial resources, I have modified it slightly to place less emphasis on personal character (keeps his nose clean), football character (works hard), and body growth (can he add weight), with more emphasis on performance. This does not reflect a disinterest in those categories, as I believe they are important (Football character especially is a top concern of mine), but until I have the money and access to visit school and inquire about players, my ability to provide an accurate grade on these things is limited. My knowledge of this system comes from Russ Lande, who publishes GM JR which uses a scale that was the inspiration for my scale, though we have a few, mostly minor, differences.
The grading scale works on a basic 1-9 system. In general, a player with a 4 or lower in any rating has a lot to overcome to be an effective NFL player, and you will rarely see that in my grading. Again, I am focused more toward players with legitimate NFL careers because I don’t have the time to scout out every eligible player available. Those reading this without a blood relation to me are most likely interested in early-round picks, not undrafted free agents. Those reading this with a blood relation probably don’t care too much one way or another. That doesn’t mean I am going only after stars. Of the first four players graded, I’d be surprised if more than one of them went in the 1st round of the 2009 NFL Draft. What it does mean is that I only am interested in scouting players who stand a legitimate chance of playing in the National Football League.
How the grades work:
Overall player grades are a little different from individual skill grades. An 8 is the highest grade I can ever give, and it is doubtful I will give that grade to anyone anytime soon. Of course, there is a fair bit of projection with any draft choice. Some players end up in excellent situations that improve them in ways that were not expected before they were drafted. Other players might be rated highly and then be colossal busts. I am unaware of any scout who can see the future, the best we can do is project the most likely path for a player, but in no way does that mean a player cannot improve/regress in ways that were unforseen – a player assigned a “Good Starter” grade could turn out to be a HOF player if groomed by the right coach for the right system, and that same player could be a colossal bust if drafted by a defunct franchise that is a poor schematic fit. And, of course, it is possible that I am simply wrong.
8.0 = No doubt the #1 pick, no doubt a HOF player.
7.9-7.0 = Surefire multiple Pro-Bowl player. Legitimate HOF chances. Top-5 pick.
6.9-6.5 = Possible Pro-Bowler for several years. Very productive starter. Easily a first rounder.
6.4-6.3 = Good starter. Asset on the field. Late first, early second round selection.
6.2-6.1 = Above Average starter. Does a good job. Second or third round
6.0 = Acceptable starter, may be a quality backup early. Second or third round.
5.9 = Backup now. Has potential to become a starter. Third round.
5.8 = Probably a long-term backup or journeyman starter. Constantly replaced. Fourth round or lower.
5.7-5.5 = Fill out a roster types, long term project players, career special teams player. 5th round or lower.
5.4 or lower = Free Agents.
Throughout the reports, I will grade each player individually on several skills. All players will be graded based off of four factors.
Athleticism – Quickness, Balance, Flexibility, Body Control
Physical Talents – Strength, Explosiveness, Body Type
Polish – Understanding of Playbook, Proper Technique, Instincts
Competitiveness – Plays Through Pain, Consistency, Clutch Play, Effort
These are all graded on a slightly different scale. The numbers go 1-9, with 9 being the highest. Here is a general translation:
9.0 = Incredible. Rarely given out ever.
8.5 = Amazing. Rarely given out ever.
8.0 = Exceptional. Might find this a few times in my reports.
7.5 = Excellent. More easily obtainable, but still a huge plus.
7.0 = Great. Several players have this for a single attribute.
6.5 = Very good. Given out to players who have skills that are above-average.
6.0 = Good. Given out for skills that are average for a college player.
5.5 = Inconsistent. Can be improved, but needs work.
5.0 = Acceptable. It won’t ruin a career, but will hinder it unless improved.
4.5 – 3.0 = Very bad. Unlikely to success with this, but possible.
2.0 = Terrible. Rarely given out to players I grade, as these players will struggle to make it in the NFL.
1.0 = I’m out of bad adjectives to describe how bad this is. This would be the grade I would give my own NFL skills, if I scouted myself.
There are also position-specific skills. These will be graded the same way that general player attributes are graded. I don’t want to give a comprehensive list for every position because it would be boring for all involved, but things such as Hands, Concentration, Routes, After Catch Skills, are all examples of what a Wide Receiver prospect would be graded on in position-specific skills.
There are also a few symbols that I should explain.
E = Estimated – used for height/weight/40 speed primarily.
V = Verified – I have from a reliable source of information an exact number.
* = Junior (redshirt or not) who has declared for the NFL Draft.
** = Redshirt Sophomore who has declared for the NFL Draft.
CR = Character Risk – I’m liberal in applying this, though many of these guys may be fit to draft.
CP = Character Problem – I’m conservative in applying this, and I wouldn’t recommend drafting this guy early.
I = Injured – Player needs to prove his health before a team uses an early selection on him.
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Welcome to my blog!
Essentially, I wanted a place to record my thoughts on the draft. I absolutely love scouting, but much of what I say is lost when wherever I say it cleans it’s archives. I’ll make sure not to clean the archives here.
My name is Kyle Rota, I’m a college student residing in Bellingham, Washington. I’m hoping to get into scouting someday, mainly because I already do it anyways and getting paid for it sounds like a good idea. That said, I have no doubt that my scouting is rudimentary at best. I’m currently working on improving my scouting, and will be doing some cool stuff by December, or so I hope.
Figuring out this site presented some difficulties. As far as the NFL goes, I try to follow all teams casually but the only team I really know in and out is the Seattle Seahawks. Because of that, both the players chosen to be scouted and what I look for is influenced. I consider this a natural extension of what real scouts do – look for the guys who fit the scheme that their team runs. So, things are presented with a Seattle slant. That said, while I may watch USC looking at Taylor Mays (given Seattle’s need for a good safety), it would be impossible for me not to notice, oh, half the defense that deserves to be drafted in the first day.
I hope that you enjoy what you read. I absolutely love discussing prospects, so by all means feel free to post responses, if I have the time (and short of this site gaining national prominence, I will eventually) I will likely reply. That said, there are a few basic things you should do if you don’t want me to delete it:
1.) Mild profanity at most. I don’t care if you swear, but if your post sounds like an Ozzie Guillen press conference it’ll be gone.
2.) Disagreements are great. It means you have an opinion you believe. Bickering and personal attacks are not. Keep it on the subject of players.
3.) No porn, no advertising, no spam. Duh.
I hope you enjoy,
Kyle Rota
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hey kyle, you need to check out the texas tech and oklahoma game this week. my guy michael crabtree will catch at least 7 ball for 120 and a TD or three.
Hey Chuck.
I will try to download that game thanksgiving weekend. For the scouting I do, I need either a TiVo (which I don’t have) or download capacities. Game happens to fast not to have a rewind feature. Bu that’ll be a huge game. Look at the Oklahoma WR Juaquin Iglesias, he’s a guy I like for Seattle’s offense (I can’t remember if you’re a Seahawk fan or not) who we might take in the 2nd if Crabtree is taken before Seattle picks – which could happen.
I like Crabtree a lot though. I want to get a lot of Texas Tech so I can evaluate the kid well, so I’ll probably wait until December or January to scout him, but he looks like a good one from the Texas vs Texas Tech game I saw.
I just discovered your site (from http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/) and I must say I am completely impressed with how indepth you are going into this. I love scouting as well, even though I don’t do it on this level. I am definately looking forward to the months coming up before April and seeing your take on things. Keep up the great work!
Bookmarked
Go Hawks!
Hey, thanks! I’m 100% serious when I say that knowing people read these is what keeps me going. I don’t like writing to myself. So knowing that people are enjoying my work is great.
Hey Rotak you ever think about scouting this young man? I honestly don’t think I saw one Missu game this year. I ask because someone psoted an article in .net and this was in it.
“but in my meeting with the Seattle Seahawks, I sat in with the General Manager, Head Coach and most of the coaching staff. They really drilled me and tried to find out if I had a high football IQ”
Ziggy Hood, DT, Missouri, I assume. I read the interview a day or two back. I’m actually two games into scouting him (and William Moore, Maclin, Coffman, and Daniel), and I like what I see. Not crazy about him because he’s not a killer athlete – good but not great burst for a 3, good hands, awesome spin move, nice rip, decent size. I like that I haven’t caught him being pushed downfield on running plays (Jerry has that problem) in the two games I’ve seen.
I have 3-4 more to go, since I’m scouting five guys I want more games to make sure I’m not missing anything, though re-watching plays means I shouldn’t be. I’m a firm believer that a DT who lines up outside of OG’s shoulder has very little in common with a DT who lines up in between center and guard, but I believe Hood is the best at his position. His position being a 3 technique. Doesn’t have the jaw-dropping athleticism (sometimes inconsistent burst off the snaps, isn’t a real natural runner when plays are stretched out) of a Kevin Williams, but a lot of DT is using your hands, and he has ENOUGH athleticism to be a quality starter.
(FWIW: Maclin has elite speed and I love his heart/toughness/clutch… but his COD looks terrible. Want to see it in more games before I give the final word, but I wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole based on what I’ve seen. Also doesn’t really have a clue how to run routes – his footwork in and out of cuts is terrible, and he really decelerates before he makes his cuts, allowing defenders to know what is coming. William Moore is essentially a nickel back, but he does have good instincts, especially sniffing out screens. Coffman is a guy I just plain like, though his blocking is a question mark, and Daniel is 2x the athlete I expected but 1/2 the thrower.)
Hey man….
I actually have a request/question/suggestion/whatever it is regarding your grades. But since all of your grades are obviously opinion based….and those opinions are being formed and founded off prior player’s abilities…
but what if for each level, you give an NFL counterpart, current or historic player that would translate to that score????
I think it’d be interesting to see what QB or what WR or what RB you see as a 9, 8, 7, etc. So that way when we see a grade such as your 6.7 Maualuga or your
6.9 Stafford, we can see that you’re comparing them to the likes of Ray Lewis or Gary Brackett or Carson Palmer or Fran Tarkington….etc….etc
or not
Good question, again.
Truth be told, this is my first year working with this system, and next year I will be changing things a bit. Trying to improve upon the system. So I don’t know what guys were rated what in a lot of categories.
I know 8.0 was given out to Bo Jackson and I believe OJ Simpson. It’s an incredibly rare grade.
After that, I have a copy of Russ Lande’s GM Jr, which uses the same system, for the 2007 draft. Calvin Johnson is rated a 7.1 (would’ve been near perfect but Lande dings Johnson for lack of explosiveness (low acceleration in/out of cuts), which is usually pretty important for WRs… obviously Johnson has excelled despite that). JaMarcus Russell earned, I believe, a 6.6. Adrian Peterson and Joe Thomas (6.5) earned that as well, or similar enough, my light went out so I can’t actually double-check this. Same with Gaines Adams. Surprisingly, he was high on Ginn and gave him a 6.6.
For me a 6.6 means top-10, whereas 6.7+ means top-5. 6.5-6.4 is 10-25ish range, whereas 6.3/6.2 is mid-late 1st rounder.
As for the individual skills, I’m not sure I’ve seen a player earn a 9.0 in anything, except maybe Calvin Johnson in terms of size/body type. I’m probably a little more conservative in my grades than Russ Lande, for example he gives Ginn an 8.5 in quick feet (ie Speed) whereas I gave Maclin a 7.5, and I’m not sure Maclin gives up any speed to Ginn.
JaMarcus Russell, from me, would get a 7.5 in arm strength, probably. If you have a 7.5 in a skill, to me that means when people talk about the best NFL guys at your position with that skill, you’re mentioned. So Maclin will have to be mentioned as among the fastest WRs in the NFL.
7.0 means that you might be considered in the top group, or might not, but it’s certainly excellent. Keeping this on arm strength, this is more Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer range. Not likely to be considered the absolute best, but in the conversation.
6.5 means that it is above average. Seneca Wallace probably would get this, were I to scout him as a professional. More than a couple guys have it, but it is still something lots of guys don’t. Ben Roethlisberger would be another guy I’d think of. Certainly big enough, but your jaw doesn’t drop.
6.0 is NFL average. Certainly not a bad thing, it’s actually a “this is a good skill” grade. Again, using arm strength so this is balanced, maybe Tony Romo, Eli Manning (don’t believe he has a special arm, some might argue 6.5). There’s some variance here. This would be considered “good enough to make all NFL throws” if that helps. Lots of guys have this in arm strength, because arm strength isn’t that important for a QB. Kitna would probably deserve this.
5.5 this would be below average. Matt Hasselbeck, pre 2008 (one could argue a 5.0 last year, possibly due to injury) would be given a 5.5 by me. Basically all positions can overcome a 5.5 in basically any grade, even important ones, if in the right system or possessing other grades. Calvin Johnson earned this for explosion from Lande (not saying I agree, I didn’t scout him like Lande did).
5.0 is where things get ugly. Sort of a “you better be damned good at everything else, or you better improve” grade. In several skills, there is no way to overcome this grade and still be good at your position. Depends on the skill and position. For example, Quick Feet for WRs. I’m not a believer they gotta be olympic sprints, but it is hard to get separation with this kind of speed, especially if it is coupled with 5.0 explosiveness. Even guys who are above-average everywhere else (like Mike Hass, a guy from OSU a while back) will seriously struggle if they have a 5.0 in the wrong skill. Marques Tui…Tui… however it is spelled, the QB in Oakland, sounds about right for arm strength.
Anything underneath probably isn’t worth your time, unless it comes in durability and you’re willing to take a chance.
Obviously, as you mentioned, this is subjective, it is also my first year working with this system, so I can’t really mention with 100% confidence what a guy might have. Teams grade NFL players much like I grade college players, except they don’t project them like college scouts have to. But a 6.9 would be a QB in the level right below Manning/Brady (Cutler, Palmer, Brees, McNabb, etc.), not quite the best at their position but in the top-5 mix. A 6.8 a little lower, maybe the bottom of the 2nd tier (you could consider Hasselbeck after 07 a 6.8 or 6.7 overall). Just gets progressively less.
I went into this comment with absolutely no plan, so it’s kind of unorganized, my apologies.